Rise of the Robots: Martin Ford on AI, Jobs and Basic Income

Martin Ford, author of Rise of the Robots, on why AI won't take most jobs until models learn on the job. Martin Ford has been writing since 2009 about AI permanently displacing paid work. Here he draws the line between what today's models actually do - mathematical proofs, yes; the daily work of a new graduate, no. The bottleneck is continual learning, the ability to learn in real time on the job, and while it is missing the effect on white-collar work stays narrow. He still considers the break inevitable, and he explains why a basic income would not fail for lack of value creation outside Silicon Valley. Also: what open models from China mean for the business models of OpenAI and Anthropic, why a bursting AI bubble could cost more jobs than automation itself, and where the upside sits that is meant to outweigh all of it. 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:54 The killer app of 2009 - and what became of it 00:01:26 Where we actually stand 00:02:21 What the labour market data shows 00:03:48 Why boring jobs go first 00:05:05 Continual learning: the missing piece 00:07:17 Robots, factories and the messy outside world 00:11:08 Which skills hold up 00:14:18 Is this time different? The case for basic income 00:17:48 Who captures the value 00:26:10 Open models versus the frontier labs 00:28:15 Cyber risk 00:31:22 The new edition of Rise of the Robots 00:34:39 Railroads, fibre, GPUs: the bubble question 00:38:36 Data centres, energy, overcapacity 00:46:12 The other side: AlphaFold, fusion, medicine 00:50:05 Longevity and the limits of hope 00:56:26 The wildest prediction Guest: Martin Ford is a futurist and author. Rise of the Robots won the Financial Times/McKinsey Business Book of the Year Award and has been translated into more than 20 languages; the new edition was published on 2 June 2026. His other books are Rule of the Robots (2021), Architects of Intelligence (2018) and The Lights in the Tunnel (2009). His 2017 TED Talk has been viewed more than three million times. He holds a computer engineering degree from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, and a graduate business degree from UCLA. Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mfordfuture/ Website: https://mfordfuture.com/ Rise of the Robots (new edition): https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Robots-Technology-Threat-Jobless/dp/1541608860/ Architects of Intelligence (interviews, incl. Ray Kurzweil): https://www.amazon.com/Architects-Intelligence-truth-people-building/dp/1789131510 Rule of the Robots: https://www.amazon.com/Rule-Robots-Artificial-Intelligence-Everything/dp/1541674731/ deeptech Insights: deeptech INSIGHTS is a long-form interview series for people who think about frontier technology and the future for a living. Host Sascha Roehrer sits down with executives, investors, researchers, and the people shaping what comes next. Produced by Börsenmedien AG, Germany's leading financial media house (DER AKTIONÄR, BÖRSE ONLINE, €uro, €uro am Sonntag). Youtube English: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGwe6Ab4ZdSc Youtube German: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYvuwOqohiSw Spotify English: https://open.spotify.com/show/033ONjPa8CuRZwJ0wZyWPz?si=c6fe9d33623e4418 Spotify German: https://open.spotify.com/show/033ONlTEHwbLHanLrQ6SeC?si=738da62560ed4cd7 Guest suggestions & feedback: [e-mail] This episode is for informational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell any security.